I've been moving around, and one of the issues I always found, whatever place I land, is ordering stuff and getting it delivered without disclosing personal information.
I've seen this #339626 posted today, and it made me want to ask stashers if they have any better options than international couriers or traditional post service to send or receive stuff. I am aware that weight and size do matter. It would be interesting to have different methods for different items.
Are there P2P services available? Anon? that can, under all circumstances, ensure the delivery of a tangible item to a specific location? abroad? What if I wanted something from a local manufacturer in, let's say, Nicaragua instead of The amazon?
If not a service like SovStack, is there perhaps a methodology to ship stuff this way?
How are you stasher shipping or receiving items anonymously?
Tweeted a nice thread: https://x.com/xmragora/status/2103944409146671504 original ↗
what are you shipping?
stolen roman coins
power crystals
ancient artifacts (annunaki gameboys)
congenital defects?
I'm not shipping anything, just receiving.
You, apart bs, what are you shipping?
genuine question. bs = biased sentences
If the actual goal is "the merchant/sender doesn’t get my name and home address", a PMB / CMRA (private mailbox / Commercial Mail Receiving Agency) is the boring, widely used option. Which one depends on your location / destination. "Snowbirds" and digital nomads use these all the time: you give the seller a street-looking receiving address, they ship there, and you pick up, forward, or have it held. That breaks the link between the sender and your residential address. It is not complete anonymity. Most CMRAs want ID. How much they want and how picky they are varies a lot by country and by shop. If the threat model is "sender doesn’t know my name/house", a CMRA is usually enough. If the threat model is "nobody on earth can tie this box to me", most CMRAs fail that test (unless you have an alternative ID for such cases ;) )
I tried about PMB and CMRA before, I'm simply looking for other alternatives where no one know who the other party is ("legally" speaking). And everyone gets what they want.
For example, I heard cases in the US of dudes using $ notes' serial number as receiver, so when they go to USPS to retrieve them, they use that as "ID". Weird stuff. I feel the only one needed to know about this information is the one responsible for the transport.
what if the goal is the government doesn't know who is sending laxatives to who?
for the glowies i literally mean street legal laxatives. I like to buy in bulk and overdose myself (just in case).
We try and best solve this with our Re-router service (https://sovereignstack.tools/rerouter/). We successfully ship items abroad but it varies depending on each order. (Item, size, dimension, shipping address being used, border inspection, Country). We work with customers regarding sourcing/shipment/delivery/reception. We try and find it locally rather than shipping from abroad.
We wrote a blogpost back in '21 on private mailing options (https://sovereignstack.tools/how-to-thinking-about-private-mail-drops/) but it's more US-centric. Its helpful to get an idea of what you should think about.
A few other considerations:
If you're a nomad this may be more difficult but befriending local businesses or using hotels as shipping addresses are a good work around.
There is no one-size fits all, believe me, I wish there was.
I wish it was :) would be an easy problem to solve. Or perhaps someone else would have it solved already.
Your contribution on fixing this is partial, don't get me wrong, I appreciate your services, and I'll use them when I need them too. Still, it continues forcing us going in the "regulated" way, shipping fees, customs taxes, bs paperwork... and that's why I do not like. Again nothing personal, just business <3
I'm not aware of any. I would be glad to hear if there were other solutions. Mail is very not private honestly. I remember Sam Bent mentioned something like the post office logs and retains the logs for all the mail that goes to you with to, from, and the names and addresses of both. Most of what you want to do here will cost extra and/or shift trust instead of eliminate it not dissimilar to using a VPN. Welcome to the dystopia.
For proxy shipping I've tried and liked anonshop.app. He'll do any site not just amazon, I've bought stuff off of eBay and vendor sites through him too.
List of proxy shippers on monerica:
https://monerica.com/businesses/proxy-shopping
Yes, proxy shopping is an alternative, but honestly I'm thinking more of a P2P transport network. So many people travel here and there everyday, every hour, nonstop. They have space in their vehicles; they can travel with extra luggage.
What I'm asking is probably more a P2P uber-delivery service more than a proxy shopper.
This is actually very good idea for environment considering that we can outsource a lot of deliveries from delivery services to people going their in same direction anyways. I've seen it on small scale in group chats where people tell that they're going to some country/city and can transfer something for some fee. Even if it's not that punctual and straightforward as standard delivery service it can be still free the roads from redundant autos and pollutions
I think this is worth trying too. It works in small communities but feels it could work on a bigger scale too, mostly because I see already such services operating worldwide yet still require some sort of fiat connection. The reason being is because they are the escrow, so for legal reasons, they need to get all parties' details.
It would be great to see such systems operating anonymously, without a registered business behind them, and obviously, with sound money.
shopinbit
Thanks, I know shop in bit; it's a good white-gloved concierge service. I feel something more accessible is needed, kind of everyday use.
i am interested in this too. tried to find something and it seems like nothing exists right now.that is a real pain point. someone said yesterday to listen to people’s pain points and solve them. this feels like a good monero business opportunity.
Oh, believe me, it is not just Monero. I don't see this as a business opportunity but as a common problem that needs to be fixed first. If someone else figures it out and makes a business out of it even better, I'll probably be the first user to test it out. Here to brainstorm and see how things can be done better.
This is a challenge many people face; if someone were capable of establishing a logistics network that offered maximum privacy protection (strictly for legal goods, of course), it would be incredibly lucrative—surpassing the profit margins of many black- and grey-market industries. In reality, however, this is extremely difficult, as such a network would face global opposition and containment. The reason is that, once established, it would inevitably become entangled with black- and grey-market activities.
It does not need to be, and I'm looking for an alternative to deal with white and grey market items. nothing illegal. I think networks already exist, some p2p. The issue there is having the "transport" to accept crypto as payment.
I think what @b is saying is that if you operate such a logistics network it would inevitably start to be used by customers who would start using it to ship illegal goods. If you provide good privacy, you won't be able to prevent this for the most part. Maybe if you have a well trained drug dog and an Xray machine you can do something, but that's about it (as far as I can think of). Any organization like that would likely be vulnerable to a RICO case too (extreme guilt by association). It's high risk for low margins considering how cheap shipping through the white market is. There's a reason DNMs use USPS versus building out such a network. Fun fact, Lysander Spooner did this and out competed the post office for a long time until he got shut down by the gov.
All in all, not saying it's an impossible problem to solve, but it's a hard one.
Thuth is, am not looking to be (personally or as a business) responsible for such a thing. That's where the power of
d e c e n t r a l i z a t i o nand p2p come in to help. No one would take such responsibility if not closely attached to some good well-connected friends of friends.The transporter will take responsibility, and it feels will be able to deliver, well, let it do! Otherwise, it will need to pay for the loss/damage. And if it does deliver, it will be rewarded accordingly.
Perhaps I'm just dreaming... tell me more on how the DNMs use USPS (US only, I guess?). Spooner directly competed with an organization that was (and still) above government. Anyway, my idea is different #339732
I'm probably thinking it's less possible because I'm US based. The US is very spread out so that makes it a lot harder. If you did an escrow system where the transporter overcolaterallizes the value of the package that could work too. Maybe you pick where you want to go and where you're coming from and it could tell you if there are any packages to pick up along the way. Throw in some insurance providing and a reputation service and it could work. It would be a bit like xmrbazaar. DNMs use USPS because in the US a big thing the gov does to end run around the constitution is force companies to do it for them. They pressure UPS and FedEx to heavily scan packages and they're allowed to open them without a warrant, but for USPS it's a government provided service so they can't open your packages without a warrant or significant reasonable suspicion (weirdness with the container (leaking, smell, etc)).
I used to consider states, nations, etc. fictional barriers. If you use tools built into the fiction, you will be subject to the fiction regulation, most of us agree by silent consent, worse case signing unilateral contracts.
Anyhow, thanks for the suggestion. I agree an escrow system is needed to have peace of mind for all parties involved. And transporting items is a big responsibility, as a lot of shit can hit the fan when moving around in the wild west :)
Those fictional barriers are important because it determines how likely you are to get thrown in a box, for how long, and how bad is the box. It's a big consideration in Samuel Edward Konkin III works on agorism. I don't consent to those systems either hence the username. You can't make a good risk decision around noncompliance or building free decentralized systems without those considerations unfortunately. Maybe one day.