pull down to refresh
All the examples of suffering you pointed out are multiplied 1000x when you include animal products in the mix. This is because you need to feed the animals 1,000 calories for every 1 calorie you produce in meat/dairy/etc.. Where do all those calories come from? Plants. Plants which when harvested kill mice (however most successfully run away from the harvester BTW) and bugs like you said. If you consume animal products, you ironically require orders of magnitude more plants than a vegan.
Numbers aside, it's just feels dirty and wrong to hold sentient beings in captivity.... locked up in your shed or whatever.
Thanks for responding.
it's simply degrees. everyone is killing creatures everyday. and if you become a self sufficient farmer living off your land, you enslave creatures, contort their nature and inadvertently kill them regardless of you desire not to harm.
i also think vegan isn't healthy - a vegan can eat 100% junk food. it's about minimising harm of animals, but not necessarily about your own health.
plant eaters who eat a low fat whole starch diet are generally very healthy, but many wouldn't call themselves "vegan" because their focus isn't on non harm to animals it's on health and improvement of themselves.
So to sum up your thoughts there....
- "you can't avoid 100% harm"
My response- Correct, you can't. But my point is that you can reduce unintentional harm 1,000 fold and at the very least not hold sentient beings captive.
- "Vegan diets aren't healthy if you only eat vegan junk food."
My response- Correct, I agree.
- "Plant Based eaters eat more plants to gain better health, not to help animals."
My response- Yes these people exist. They're often referred to as "plant-based" rather than "vegan".
What overall point are you trying to make with these stated thoughts?
there aren't health benefits from being vegan vs being plant based.
the feeling of moral superiority or value signalling that vegan's enjoy is only possible until the vegan studies where their food comes from and how it is produced.
many people would become plant based or vegan if they had to kill their own livestock, chickens.
it's interesting the vegetarian who eats fish because they don't think the face has as much appeal as a duck or a pig :).
Main point: it's all how you decide to run your head space.
i actually have no issue with being vegan or whatever, but if you are saying its better morally because you are not killing,,, what of the mice in the combine harvester that collects your wheat or the bees killed to make monoculture almond milk or the bird that starves or the insects under the wheels or your delivery truck or the rodents poisoned in the food packaging plant or... See its all just slective bias thinking