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This is all you get because you are starting to show your colors.
I've met many vegetarian and vegans in my time as a nutritionist and often they end up proving one thing to me. They have no clue how their own bodies actually work. Their decisions are solely based on mental idealogies and they are often bad ones. The body gets no say in their "NEW" life and now the control "YOU" doesn't have the education and knowledge to understand the damage you are doing.
Count your own concessions before you ask for proof again. The pill. The round number. The receipt. The veganic farm you described as "idk, look it up." That's not proving me wrong. That's agreeing with me and asking what my point is.
And on the side note, you had it backwards. Cows don't take B12 pills. The bacteria in her rumen make it out of cobalt in the grass. That's exactly why the beef and the egg have it and the carrot doesn't. The cow is the factory, and she runs on grass. You're the one who needs the lab.
Watson living to 95 is one man, and he lived in the supplement era. His own letter still said nutrition doesn't get a veto. One survivor doesn't rewrite the founder's own words.
Numbered, so we're even.
- "As long as you're adequately supplementing B12." That's my point said back to me. The diet is still missing the vitamin. The pill is the diet failing and the factory catching it. You've conceded that twice now.
1a) Watson. One man is an anecdote, not evidence. He lived into the supplement era, so his 95 years are the pill's work, not the carrot's. And his own letter still said nutrition doesn't get a veto. You calling him a gangster for risking his own health is the closest you've come to admitting the diet was a gamble.
- Let me spell it out since you asked huh.
The pill is not awesome. The pill is a receipt that says you are missing something. If you need it medically, fine, that's the body failing and science stepping in. But yours isn't medical. Yours is a choice. You chose the gap, then bought the patch, then called the patch a victory. An ethic that needs a permanent industrial rescue to not hurt the person following it isn't the ethical choice. It's a mental game.
- You retreated from 1000x to "a round clean number to illustrate my point," and now you're arguing goliath's field mice point instead of your own. Round numbers aren't arguments. The math still ain't mathing.
- Pills are awesome for medicine. Awesome for a choice? No. And Monero doesn't need a pill to work. Your diet does. That's the difference between new and incomplete.
- I gave you the proof. B12, the stores, the 2 to 5 years, the nerve damage. You conceded the supplement, then asked for proof of the same thing. That loop is done.
5a) You said you're correct and asked what's my point. The point was the receipt. You left the pill and the body cost off your cheaper claim. Still there.
- You cited veganic farming, didn't know how it works, and said you'll switch when you see it on shelves. So today's plate is still downstream of the same killing. 99 percent of the right thing still counts the same deaths as 0. You just put a smaller number on yours.
Hello there,
In modern times, farmed animals are absolutely supplemented with B12. See below.
https://www.valleyvet.com/rooster-booster-liquid-b-12-plus-vitamin-k
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/durvet-hi-level-vitamin-b-complex
https://www.nbinno.com/article/nutritional-chemicals/vitamin-b12-feed-additive-animal-nutrition-mo
https://spectrumcare.pet/farm-animals/pig/medications/cobalamin
In the past (pre-industrial revolution), B12 was plentiful in meat, eggs, untreated drinking water, and even on vegetables due to trace amounts of untreated dirt. This is no longer the case.
See the valleyvet link above? I imagine this "Rooster Booster" supplement and others like it are adding a substantial amount of B12 to the eggs and other items.
You seem to be romanticizing nature, thinking that if you can't do something without technology, then it's not good? Without technology, none of us would be alive. Factories are good. Supplements are good. Health is good. This is human.
Nature is good too. But humans are very smart and inventive. We're able to harness the benefits of nature while protecting ourselves from the downsides of it (to a degree).
Even if you don't take the pill yourself, you would still run out of B12 if your animals weren't getting it.
If we as a society stopped all supplementation, you and I would probably run out of B12 reserves at the same time. You are supplementing B12, you're just not aware of it.
I look forward to your response bro,
Hello there. That's new.
Three replies ago you were "huh" and "idk, look it up." Now it's tidy paragraphs, a link pile, and "this is human." You turned a robot on. It didn't read the labels either. That's the slop. Dressed up, and still wrong.
Rooster Booster is a chicken bottle. It says poultry. Stress, illness, appetite. Then you wrote "I imagine" it dumps a substantial amount of B12 into eggs. Imagine harder. A guess with a URL under it is still a guess.
Durvet is a shot. Injectable. Cattle, sheep, swine, when the animal is sick, stressed, or short. That is a vet rescue, not the reason a steer on grass has B12 in the meat. You found a syringe and called it the food chain.
The pig link is a pig. Pigs don't have a rumen. You googled the wrong stomach and acted like you found the conspiracy.
Here is the part your helper didn't check. A cow does not get her B12 from a pill. Bacteria in the rumen make it out of cobalt in the grass. That ran before factories and it still runs. Cobalt is a mineral in the dirt. It is not a B12 capsule. She builds the vitamin. You buy the vitamin. Chickens and pigs are a different animal. They don't make it. She does. You stacked four links from three species and pretended they were one fact.
So no. If the pills stopped tomorrow I would not run out with you. My beef still makes it. Your carrot still doesn't. Your stores last 2 to 5 years, which is why you feel fine and think that means you won.
And then the robot said the quiet part for you. Factories are good. Supplements are good. This is human. You stopped arguing the diet is complete. You're proud it has a pharmacy. That's the concession.
An ethic that needs a syringe to keep its own story standing isn't an ethic. It's a subscription with a manifesto.
And keep supporting, bro. Your last reply was free. How many more you got?
That's how Stasher works. Put your money where your mouth is boi
hello there,
Why do you think virtually all farm animals are supplemented with B12?
Yeah I know about that thing where the gut creates it.... but in modern times without that supplement their gut won't create it.
Do you think farmers are spending their hard-earned money on B12 supplements for their animals for no reason? Why would they spend all that money if the animals' guts supplied it reliably?
Did you read the links I posted?
hello there,
Here are my numbered responses to your responses:
my response- As long as you're adequately supplementing B12, your body won't run out of B12 stores.
1a) "Donald Watson made it clear that even if this new diet idea proves inadequate, he would support it and follow it regardless out of principle. This invalidates veganism."
my response- Donald Watson was a gangster. I personally wouldn't have been willing to risk my own health for the sake of this principle at that time in history. He put himself through an experiment which was probably very scary at the time....... he ended up living a healthy active life and died at age 95, remaining a very active "fell-walker" and gardener until shortly before his death. So although he would've personally been willing to harm himself, he didn't. His experiment proved that animal products aren't required to survive or thrive.
my response- ......................... huh?
my response- No they're not exactly precise numbers, but that's obvious. Everything isn't going to be a factor of exactly 1,000..... I was using a round clean number to illustrate my point. Here's my point without numbers stated- "A diet including dairy and meat requires way more land and crop production, therefore the concerns for field mice and insects increase massively if you include animal products in your diet."
my response- Pills are awesome. They have benefited humanity greatly and are one of the many reasons humans are living longer and healthier. As far as being a new idea, yes veganism is a new idea...... what's your point? Monero has only been a thing for 12 years or so, correct?
my response- I have not witnessed or experienced this. Do you have any proof?
5a) "Whether or not it's cheaper depends on what you buy".
my response- You're correct. What's your point?
my response- Veganic farming doesn't require "the gas well". It rotates leaves or something like that, idk. Look it up if you're interested. My understanding is that the important thing is nitrogen. Yeah my food doesn't currently come from veganic farming.... but I will switch to that if I see it on store shelves. This doesn't invalidate my argument; doing 99% the right thing isn't as bad as doing 0% the right thing, if that makes sense.
SIDE NOTE-
This is neither here nor there, because there's nothing inherently wrong with pills.... but before the industrial revolution, humans got B12 from untreated drinking water and from the trace amounts of dirt on their vegetables...... Likewise, in our modern industrial world, the farm animals also need to be supplemented with B12. So the B12 you're getting from hamburgers etc.. wouldn't be there if the cows weren't given B12 pills at the farm.
I look forward to your response. So far, my assertion that "veganism is the ethical choice" hasn't been proven wrong.